Christianity Today dives into the enigma that is Bono, with no less than three articles concerning the singer appearing in their magazine this week. Bono’s American Prayer takes a look at who Bono is, where he’s coming from and what he’s been doing. In the meantime it raises the question: ‘Is he or isn’t he?’
‘Pop music with brains’ looks at U2’s music. Everything after The Joshua Tree is deemed unamerican… unchristian: “…during the 1990s Bono seemed intent on deconstructing his supposed “holy stature,” often behaving in ways that many evangelical Christians found distressing.”
But, rejoice, says the magazine: “At the start of the new millennium, something remarkable happened. No one thought the aging musicians capable of making another album on the same level as The Joshua Tree. No one in the Christian music scene expected U2 ever to record an album of nakedly pious songs.” No one, probably, but their millions of non-christian fans who seem to have more faith in the band.
The editorial – it’s not clear who exactly wrote it , Bono’s Thin Ecclesiology, is a full on critique of the ‘he ain’t no real Christian’ kind: “…we hope that God also uses this time to draw Bono into a deeper sense of what it means to be a Christian.” Yawn.
- Atu2.com: Respect, Righteousness and a Mirrorball Lemon, a response by pastor Beth Maynard
Not a very Christian article, is it? It has the kind of fingerpointing, holier-than-thou, even a bit nasty-jealous undertone in it that always sort of makes me sick. If anything, it underlines Bono’s point that you should question organized religion and people who think they have all the answers. Now, excuse me, must vomit.
Not a very Christian article, is it? It has the kind of fingerpointing, holier-than-thou, even a bit nasty-jealous undertone in it that always sort of makes me sick. If anything, it underlines Bono’s point that you should question organized religion and people who think they have all the answers. Now, excuse me, must vomit.
Here’s a bucket!
Here’s a bucket!
@U2 has a copy of an excellent response to the “Paper-Thin Ecclesiology” editorial; definitely a must read:
http://www.atu2.com/news/article.src?ID=2878
@U2 has a copy of an excellent response to the “Paper-Thin Ecclesiology” editorial; definitely a must read:
http://www.atu2.com/news/article.src?ID=2878
You got it, flygirl! Always listen to people who SHOW you they are Christians and tune out the ones who TELL you they are. CHRISTIANITY TODAY?? Not the way they play it, today or any day. To paraphrase Ben Haas, if Christ had thought like them, He’d’ve lived to a ripe old age.
You got it, flygirl! Always listen to people who SHOW you they are Christians and tune out the ones who TELL you they are. CHRISTIANITY TODAY?? Not the way they play it, today or any day. To paraphrase Ben Haas, if Christ had thought like them, He’d’ve lived to a ripe old age.
Ugh.
Ugh.
I certainly hope CT didn’t anticipate this issue having crossover appeal…and infact…i hope no one but christians read this article…for a magazine to completely devalue an artists entire decade..i really hoped CT would do a better job on this..
I certainly hope CT didn’t anticipate this issue having crossover appeal…and infact…i hope no one but christians read this article…for a magazine to completely devalue an artists entire decade..i really hoped CT would do a better job on this..
you know, i think by saying achtung didn’t even have a pint of religion in it was wrong.. i think most of the tracks were “nakedly-pious”… especially one, uteotw, and love is blindness…. zooropa and the zoo tv tour were a slightly different story, and i also kind of reject the idea that the mocking of something will drive it away… rather it will get the better of you (i think bono even has a lyric similar to that in one of the later tracks in ATYCLB)… Pop was a mixed bag.. pop in itself was trying to draw the attention to the fact that we shouldn’t get consumed by “consumerism” which in it self was a noble cause… and there were tracks which could also be considered a bit religious in nature: if god will send his angels, staring at the sun, gone, and please.. even discotheque in a certain sense.. it acknowledges that love is something natural and not something evil…
i think ive said enough run-on stuff that makes no sense now :)…
oh yeah btw, if anyone will find this interesting… im a muslim, but i still love u2 for their goodwill efforts and not shying away from using religious themes in their songs.. as well as being the most kickass rock band ever! i think that its sort of a tragedy that 10 to 20 years ago if you talked about sex and violence in public often you were considered a pervert, and now its perfectly normal.. and even worse.. if you talk about anything good, whether it be directly about religion or just some nice thoughts about life, before it was considered good.. now you’re basically an outcast if you do that sort of stuff 🙁 (at least in north america)
you know, i think by saying achtung didn’t even have a pint of religion in it was wrong.. i think most of the tracks were “nakedly-pious”… especially one, uteotw, and love is blindness…. zooropa and the zoo tv tour were a slightly different story, and i also kind of reject the idea that the mocking of something will drive it away… rather it will get the better of you (i think bono even has a lyric similar to that in one of the later tracks in ATYCLB)… Pop was a mixed bag.. pop in itself was trying to draw the attention to the fact that we shouldn’t get consumed by “consumerism” which in it self was a noble cause… and there were tracks which could also be considered a bit religious in nature: if god will send his angels, staring at the sun, gone, and please.. even discotheque in a certain sense.. it acknowledges that love is something natural and not something evil…
i think ive said enough run-on stuff that makes no sense now :)…
oh yeah btw, if anyone will find this interesting… im a muslim, but i still love u2 for their goodwill efforts and not shying away from using religious themes in their songs.. as well as being the most kickass rock band ever! i think that its sort of a tragedy that 10 to 20 years ago if you talked about sex and violence in public often you were considered a pervert, and now its perfectly normal.. and even worse.. if you talk about anything good, whether it be directly about religion or just some nice thoughts about life, before it was considered good.. now you’re basically an outcast if you do that sort of stuff 🙁 (at least in north america)
I do love the wording of this.. thanks John for reminding me where I read it.
The Rev. Beth Maynard Beth is a parish priest and the former president of Gathering The neXt Generation (the Episcopal Church’s network for postmodern ministry). When she’s not on the Net or IN ONE OF THOSE CHURCHES BONO DOESN’T GO TO, she’s co-editing the forthcoming collection Get Up Off Your Knees: Preaching the U2 Catalog/a>.
Great stuff here…bcrt2000..ditto
I’m not trying to compare anyone to Jesus here but when you talk the good talk this is what happens. Bono can take it. U2 you take me higher on the scale of enlightenment at least. They are rewarded daily for their committment. It doesn’t mean they won’t have to take a few arrows however..
I do love the wording of this.. thanks John for reminding me where I read it.
The Rev. Beth Maynard Beth is a parish priest and the former president of Gathering The neXt Generation (the Episcopal Church’s network for postmodern ministry). When she’s not on the Net or IN ONE OF THOSE CHURCHES BONO DOESN’T GO TO, she’s co-editing the forthcoming collection Get Up Off Your Knees: Preaching the U2 Catalog/a>.
Great stuff here…bcrt2000..ditto
I’m not trying to compare anyone to Jesus here but when you talk the good talk this is what happens. Bono can take it. U2 you take me higher on the scale of enlightenment at least. They are rewarded daily for their committment. It doesn’t mean they won’t have to take a few arrows however..
You know, Bono’s criticism of the church is mostly valid. But maybe it’s because he hasn’t found the church he’s looking for. The atU2 editorial mentions, “In some senses, I share CT’s frustration that Bono’s comments about what goes on in “the church” are often stereotypical and clearly not based on much direct personal experience.” The best way to find a church is to lighten up, I suppose. There’s nothing more unforgiving than discovering that people are basically, well, (supply expletive here). If church gets a bad rap, it’s because people are allowed in, and that’s ok. That’s the church I discovered; I hope Bono finds it too.
You know, Bono’s criticism of the church is mostly valid. But maybe it’s because he hasn’t found the church he’s looking for. The atU2 editorial mentions, “In some senses, I share CT’s frustration that Bono’s comments about what goes on in “the church” are often stereotypical and clearly not based on much direct personal experience.” The best way to find a church is to lighten up, I suppose. There’s nothing more unforgiving than discovering that people are basically, well, (supply expletive here). If church gets a bad rap, it’s because people are allowed in, and that’s ok. That’s the church I discovered; I hope Bono finds it too.
I’d like to find it too… It probably exist, I just haven’t found what I’m looking for…
I’d like to find it too… It probably exist, I just haven’t found what I’m looking for…
Does CT want Bono publicly naked AND pious? I know I do!
Does CT want Bono publicly naked AND pious? I know I do!
The editorial is a bit rough, but raises a very good point: Christian relief in Africa (as well as other parts of the world) is massive. As a member of a small Church, we have funded village-building projects (worked on them, too), and supported the work of missionaries who, in addition to sharing God’s word, provide medical care and education. What Bono’s doing today, gets done every day by Christian relief. That said, much more needs to be done, much more. Bono’s right (prophetic?) that if we, the western world, don’t do more, we’ll face greater troubles in the future. The point is, we can do it and we ought to be doing it. Sorry, don’t mean to preach–play the blues Edge.
The editorial is a bit rough, but raises a very good point: Christian relief in Africa (as well as other parts of the world) is massive. As a member of a small Church, we have funded village-building projects (worked on them, too), and supported the work of missionaries who, in addition to sharing God’s word, provide medical care and education. What Bono’s doing today, gets done every day by Christian relief. That said, much more needs to be done, much more. Bono’s right (prophetic?) that if we, the western world, don’t do more, we’ll face greater troubles in the future. The point is, we can do it and we ought to be doing it. Sorry, don’t mean to preach–play the blues Edge.
Well said Mark… Thanks to you and your small church for all your good work’s.
It makes a difference in the life of the people you help..
Well said Mark… Thanks to you and your small church for all your good work’s.
It makes a difference in the life of the people you help..
American Christians are doing a pathetic and inadequate job of persuading conservative politicians that they are concerned with this issue. Fact.
If your average right wing Christian conservative could muster as much outrage at this issue as they do at, oh say, TAXES, something would be done.
Of course left wing American Agnostics are also doing a pathetic job of expressing THEIR outrage too. But at least they’re not writing self-righteous editorials CLAIMING that they care.
American Christians are doing a pathetic and inadequate job of persuading conservative politicians that they are concerned with this issue. Fact.
If your average right wing Christian conservative could muster as much outrage at this issue as they do at, oh say, TAXES, something would be done.
Of course left wing American Agnostics are also doing a pathetic job of expressing THEIR outrage too. But at least they’re not writing self-righteous editorials CLAIMING that they care.
I’m sorry to say there are alot of people here in the USA that still feel the African people brought this on themselves. It’s not just ignorance it’s the people who just generally choose to be un-informed that get under my skin. Even thought I will be the first to say- judge not – these are so called Christian people who get on me because I don’t go with them to their Church. (I feel your pain Bono) I try to discuss it and some just wave it off saying they really don’t know that much about the crisis.. in essence saying they don’t want too either.
I’m just reallly thankful to Bono and all the persons involved in the Heartland tour that helped me add to my knowledge base. I can – at the very least – direct someone to several places to gain more insight into the plight of this beautiful Nation.
I’m sorry to say there are alot of people here in the USA that still feel the African people brought this on themselves. It’s not just ignorance it’s the people who just generally choose to be un-informed that get under my skin. Even thought I will be the first to say- judge not – these are so called Christian people who get on me because I don’t go with them to their Church. (I feel your pain Bono) I try to discuss it and some just wave it off saying they really don’t know that much about the crisis.. in essence saying they don’t want too either.
I’m just reallly thankful to Bono and all the persons involved in the Heartland tour that helped me add to my knowledge base. I can – at the very least – direct someone to several places to gain more insight into the plight of this beautiful Nation.
I have no comment on whether it is right or wrong to attend a church. I attend a chruch regularly, and I feel that being apart of it does strengthen my relationship with God.
I do think it is noteworthy that the word church is derived from Greek “ecclesia” which I believe means a gathering. Church was never meant to be an organized system and “sub culture.” It was meant to be a gathering of Christians who shared the same faith and rejoiced in the hope that fills them. Not to indoctrinate, to manipulate, and to control people. Just look at the Pharisees and how they used organized relegion adn church against their own people. And look at the one rebel who stood against them. It’s too bad they didnt realize he had come to save them and they crucified him.
“You broke the bonds, loosed the chains,
Carried the cross, and all my shame, Lord.
You know I believe it.”
I have no comment on whether it is right or wrong to attend a church. I attend a chruch regularly, and I feel that being apart of it does strengthen my relationship with God.
I do think it is noteworthy that the word church is derived from Greek “ecclesia” which I believe means a gathering. Church was never meant to be an organized system and “sub culture.” It was meant to be a gathering of Christians who shared the same faith and rejoiced in the hope that fills them. Not to indoctrinate, to manipulate, and to control people. Just look at the Pharisees and how they used organized relegion adn church against their own people. And look at the one rebel who stood against them. It’s too bad they didnt realize he had come to save them and they crucified him.
“You broke the bonds, loosed the chains,
Carried the cross, and all my shame, Lord.
You know I believe it.”
in the churches i have been to i have felt forced and uncomfortable being there, and i believe it is because i feel that my relationship with god is personal. I agree with Bono aout how religion is just the building, even though I don’t deny many good things can come out of a congregation. I am not really religious, but I am spiritual and have found so much beauty and hope in U2’s lyrics, be they about god, faith, love or anything else. I, I belive in love.
in the churches i have been to i have felt forced and uncomfortable being there, and i believe it is because i feel that my relationship with god is personal. I agree with Bono aout how religion is just the building, even though I don’t deny many good things can come out of a congregation. I am not really religious, but I am spiritual and have found so much beauty and hope in U2’s lyrics, be they about god, faith, love or anything else. I, I belive in love.
The life of the B-man (& any one of us) can be seen in Jesus’ parable of the sower & the seed (Matthew 13:1-23 http://bible.gospelcom.net/). Where different people heard the salvation message (the seed) & responded differently (soils). In My opinion, Bono is not unlike the seed that fell in among the thorns (he heard the message, accepted it, and grew, only to be choked by the cares and other concerns of the world). He desires to be the seed that fell on good soil and brought forth a crop that was 10, 60 or a 100 times more bountiful.
I think we all struggle to remove the trappings of the world, but it’s difficult. His message is right on about helping others, it’s just hard to hear it from someone who believes in Christ’s saving work on the cross, yet is prone to fall. We all want our heros to be perfect, yet all heroes have flaws (save Jesus)
The life of the B-man (& any one of us) can be seen in Jesus’ parable of the sower & the seed (Matthew 13:1-23 http://bible.gospelcom.net/). Where different people heard the salvation message (the seed) & responded differently (soils). In My opinion, Bono is not unlike the seed that fell in among the thorns (he heard the message, accepted it, and grew, only to be choked by the cares and other concerns of the world). He desires to be the seed that fell on good soil and brought forth a crop that was 10, 60 or a 100 times more bountiful.
I think we all struggle to remove the trappings of the world, but it’s difficult. His message is right on about helping others, it’s just hard to hear it from someone who believes in Christ’s saving work on the cross, yet is prone to fall. We all want our heros to be perfect, yet all heroes have flaws (save Jesus)
Flygirl –
You stated that the article wasn’t very “Christian” and then proceeded to state that being “holier-than-thou,” and fingerpointing people who think they have all the answers.
Then actually, this would be a very Christian article according to your definition.
And if finger-pointing is a mark of a Christian in your eyes, then you’d make a great “Christian.”
In your humble opinion that is.
Flygirl –
You stated that the article wasn’t very “Christian” and then proceeded to state that being “holier-than-thou,” and fingerpointing people who think they have all the answers.
Then actually, this would be a very Christian article according to your definition.
And if finger-pointing is a mark of a Christian in your eyes, then you’d make a great “Christian.”
In your humble opinion that is.
No, flygirl was correct, and this is the nub of the argument. A Christian by definition, a follower of Christ, is not a holier-than-thou moralizing, hypocritical, power-hungry, self-satisfied gasbag. But that is what it has come to mean, not by Christ’s edict, but by people who behave that way and call it the Christian way. This is why so many people have trouble with organized religion and even with going to church — I have heard stuff coming from the pulpit that is in direct opposition to everything Christ represents — but they claim it’s Christianity. That’s nothing short of infuriating. The kind of stuff written about Bono in this piece would make Christ gag.
No, flygirl was correct, and this is the nub of the argument. A Christian by definition, a follower of Christ, is not a holier-than-thou moralizing, hypocritical, power-hungry, self-satisfied gasbag. But that is what it has come to mean, not by Christ’s edict, but by people who behave that way and call it the Christian way. This is why so many people have trouble with organized religion and even with going to church — I have heard stuff coming from the pulpit that is in direct opposition to everything Christ represents — but they claim it’s Christianity. That’s nothing short of infuriating. The kind of stuff written about Bono in this piece would make Christ gag.
Whoever made this last comment has wisdom beyond their years
Whoever made this last comment has wisdom beyond their years
As a practicing Catholic, one of the most beautiful gifts I have ever recieved, is to be non-judgemental. “He who is without sin, cast the first stone.” and “Forgive others, as I have forgiven you.” Does any of that sound familar CT? To keep a scorecard on sin is non-productive to say the least. All of us have made unloving choices and have felt deep pain in our souls. Instead of “pointing the finger,” I believe God would say “I understand and I want to help.”
Diana
As a practicing Catholic, one of the most beautiful gifts I have ever recieved, is to be non-judgemental. “He who is without sin, cast the first stone.” and “Forgive others, as I have forgiven you.” Does any of that sound familar CT? To keep a scorecard on sin is non-productive to say the least. All of us have made unloving choices and have felt deep pain in our souls. Instead of “pointing the finger,” I believe God would say “I understand and I want to help.”
Diana
As a subscriber to CT, I was glad to see them opening up a door for the church that seems closed all too often–that being the reluctance to hear words spoken by those who are not the theological or ecclesiastical elite. While there will be billions of dollars sent by the US government to Africa to combat AIDS, the American church has its own responsibility to respond to the need. Bono’s challenge is legitimate, even if he’s reluctant to identify himself fully as a Christian (though participation, not just affirmation would boost credibility and receptivity). The article wasn’t half as critical as some of what I’ve read here, certainly not in the unjustified “name calling and finger pointing” department. Some of you are reading some strange stuff between the lines. CT is a magazine intended to be read by Christians and to challenge and encourage their faith, and generally does a fair job of it. How non-Christians view what is written may not be a primary concern; the fact is that a Christian sub-culture exists (right or wrong), and there are a variety of voices to speak to it. There is no single authoritative voice (except for the Bible) that speaks for it, so I’d ask some of you please not to stereotype the church on the basis of how you interpret one magazine writer.
As a subscriber to CT, I was glad to see them opening up a door for the church that seems closed all too often–that being the reluctance to hear words spoken by those who are not the theological or ecclesiastical elite. While there will be billions of dollars sent by the US government to Africa to combat AIDS, the American church has its own responsibility to respond to the need. Bono’s challenge is legitimate, even if he’s reluctant to identify himself fully as a Christian (though participation, not just affirmation would boost credibility and receptivity). The article wasn’t half as critical as some of what I’ve read here, certainly not in the unjustified “name calling and finger pointing” department. Some of you are reading some strange stuff between the lines. CT is a magazine intended to be read by Christians and to challenge and encourage their faith, and generally does a fair job of it. How non-Christians view what is written may not be a primary concern; the fact is that a Christian sub-culture exists (right or wrong), and there are a variety of voices to speak to it. There is no single authoritative voice (except for the Bible) that speaks for it, so I’d ask some of you please not to stereotype the church on the basis of how you interpret one magazine writer.
Dear Sisters, and Brothers,
Bono is a christian activist. He is a true christian. He is a Christian activist,
he has the heart what would Jesus do. So do I. We must not judge Bono, or anyone else with their walk with Christ. It is spiritual warfare telling you to do so.
I love Bono, and I would love all the respect for what I am doing. It is our walk with Christ that will get us to the Book of Life. I would love to work with U2. My friend went to the Grammys and met him. She thinks she is a Buddest. I have been praying for that woman. I wrote a prayer for Bono for World peace. She never gave Bono my Poem. It was the Truth God’s will for peace. Last night I helped her when she came home. I had taken some thing to her she had lost. I said Excuse me I will
back. I went to the restroom, and when she came back, she was gone. She was suppose to give me a ride home. I walked home all by myself. I am doing so many good things for others. Bono is too. It is not easy being a christian woman in the state of Florida. God keeps getting me through every day. I have no family, and I do the best I can do.
Florida has no laws for woman. The Lord has laws for us all. I must get ready for my Galations Class.
I will pray for you today.
Dear Sisters, and Brothers,
Bono is a christian activist. He is a true christian. He is a Christian activist,
he has the heart what would Jesus do. So do I. We must not judge Bono, or anyone else with their walk with Christ. It is spiritual warfare telling you to do so.
I love Bono, and I would love all the respect for what I am doing. It is our walk with Christ that will get us to the Book of Life. I would love to work with U2. My friend went to the Grammys and met him. She thinks she is a Buddest. I have been praying for that woman. I wrote a prayer for Bono for World peace. She never gave Bono my Poem. It was the Truth God’s will for peace. Last night I helped her when she came home. I had taken some thing to her she had lost. I said Excuse me I will
back. I went to the restroom, and when she came back, she was gone. She was suppose to give me a ride home. I walked home all by myself. I am doing so many good things for others. Bono is too. It is not easy being a christian woman in the state of Florida. God keeps getting me through every day. I have no family, and I do the best I can do.
Florida has no laws for woman. The Lord has laws for us all. I must get ready for my Galations Class.
I will pray for you today.
We are all christians. Bono is doing the best that
anyone can do. He is a Christian activist, and so am I. It is what would Jesus do. My friend Jamie went to the Grammys and met Bono. She knew nothing what Bono was doing. I knew for a very long time. I wrote Bono a poem it was the truth for World Peace. She never gave it to Bono, she gave it to someone else. I know Bono is doing the right thing, and so am I with my walk with the Lord.
We are all christians. Bono is doing the best that
anyone can do. He is a Christian activist, and so am I. It is what would Jesus do. My friend Jamie went to the Grammys and met Bono. She knew nothing what Bono was doing. I knew for a very long time. I wrote Bono a poem it was the truth for World Peace. She never gave it to Bono, she gave it to someone else. I know Bono is doing the right thing, and so am I with my walk with the Lord.
As far as “the unjustified name calling and finger pointing.” That was not my intention and I appologize if it seemed that way. Nor do I feel, it was necessarily the intentions of the other writers, on this website. I was simply making a point, directly to the writer of “Bono’s Thin Ecclesiology.” The reason most of us referenced CT magazine, instead of the writer is because we do not know their idenity. This is not an asualt on the magazine CT as a valid and well informed publication, or on Christianity as a chosen spirital path. But I can understand the pain and frustration that some would feel towards organized religion. Especially if they have been made to feel unworthy and most expecially, unloved. Thank you for letting me post this and may God’s perfect love, be with you all.
As far as “the unjustified name calling and finger pointing.” That was not my intention and I appologize if it seemed that way. Nor do I feel, it was necessarily the intentions of the other writers, on this website. I was simply making a point, directly to the writer of “Bono’s Thin Ecclesiology.” The reason most of us referenced CT magazine, instead of the writer is because we do not know their idenity. This is not an asualt on the magazine CT as a valid and well informed publication, or on Christianity as a chosen spirital path. But I can understand the pain and frustration that some would feel towards organized religion. Especially if they have been made to feel unworthy and most expecially, unloved. Thank you for letting me post this and may God’s perfect love, be with you all.
I think that if Bono was doing everything PC then there wouldn’t be such a question raised by the editors of CT. I think they are totally wrong dissing anyone like that but I guess it’s not about the faith that I have it’s more to do with selling magazines. And we know what Jesus did with those that choose to turn His temple into a “robbers den.”
I think that if Bono was doing everything PC then there wouldn’t be such a question raised by the editors of CT. I think they are totally wrong dissing anyone like that but I guess it’s not about the faith that I have it’s more to do with selling magazines. And we know what Jesus did with those that choose to turn His temple into a “robbers den.”